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AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. If your upper and lower receivers are MIL-SPEC the ARMagLock will work. I can manually push the catch tab in to raise the catch higher. This can cause partial engagement of the bolt catch and result in unintentional contact between the bolt carrier group and the bolt catch during normal weapon operation. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Hope this helps. What corresponding dimensions do you have? What the problem is: The lip on the un-fixed P-mag pushes the mag release/Bolt catch bar up just enough to catch the bolt group, but not enough to stop it. For more information, please see our I used a digital caliper depth gauge as shown in the picture. I deepened the hole to 0.480. I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. Crap! Because both symptoms exist, it seems that the components within each receiver may be too far from each other which leads me to suspect that the interface between the upper or lower is too thick. If you could post a pic of that comparison, it would be helpful. Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. So far so good. The Magpul PMAG is a great, well designed magazine that many people like and use in various rifles around the world, but over the years I have discovered that they are not the best option for me personally. That might give a more consistent measurement between yours and mine. I'd delete it if I could. Have the power still to banish your defenders; till at length your ignorance, which finds not till it feels, making but reservation of yourselves, still your own foes, deliver you, as most abated captives to some nation that won you without blows!". The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. I thought about a low mag catch (the machining of it) very first, based on your info, but I wanted to know about that mag catch's internal parts first. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. Sorry, I see the bolt is hitting the follower i could not see that at first.. Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but I thought the bolt catch is SUPPOSED to ride up on the follower? It was initially 0.323 deep. P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved! If someone can answer that, I'd appreciate it. The mag on the left is the metal 10 round mag, the two to the right are Pmags. But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. It's a precaution against folks who like to cause trouble immediately after joining up. I sent an email toDaytona Tactical support telling that themagazine catch hole is0.049 too low compared to others I've seen drawings of and am awaiting their response. Similar occurences? The problem is interference between the bottom edge of the rear wall of the mag well and a ridge running horizontally across the PMag spine. I thought it was a nonissue with the gen 3. There were no ammunition-related issues during the review. They all functioned fine. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt 'home'. These two pics right here, and the height difference. This is. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt home. How is it though that my. A: Some states require the compliance solution be made permanent. For me it's almost all gen 2 P mags. Because of the cost difference, weight, compatibility issues, and not dropping free in many platforms, Ill stick with what I know works. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. Gonna remove the anodizing, but making omelets requires the breaking of eggs; so. It was initially 0.323 deep. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but Id first like to solve the feed problem. Also, since the follower rides too high the pmags I used made a dent in the follower from the bolt. None of the 3 15/30 i have worked. Here's a photo showing the mags. I had that issue with a couple Lancer mags, ended up replacing that bolt catch when it broke with a Sig 716 bolt catch and now the one Lancer mag I saved that had the issue works in that rifle. Operation of an AR-15 without the receivers / action fully closed may result in serious injuries or death. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Definitely try another couple magazines, including one from another manufacturer. I have both just to keep ammo separated. Try manually locking it back a dozen or so times then checking for any wear streaks on the top of the magazine feed lips. Close the receivers back together and re-engage the rear takedown pin. Re: Magpul PMag issues. I have a substantial cache of PMAGs, I already performed the PMAG mod by cutting the back of the mag so the bolt catch wont activate. I sanded the top rib along the back wall of the mag near the feed and the feed itself and problem seems to have resolved. Switch the Safety selector to 'Safe'. 7: Bolt catch fully extended, plunger removed = 0.443, Fig. At the moment just keep posting as usual, the edit feature will become available. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, I'll test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. My solution is to raise the bottom rear edge of the mag well by approximately 1mm to 1.5mm. I ordered 10 mags from brownells after I saw they didn't ride the bolt up. PMAG Problems Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. This will allow for easy removal of the magazine . Elite Aluminum Products although I dont know who made them. . After installation of the ARMagLock the button is. Loctite (red) or epoxy the Allen bolt into the standoff (threaded barrel tube), and lightly drilling the bolt head facets with a 1/8 drill bit until the socket teeth are rounded. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. It isnt that they are bad (in fact they feed and run very well in certain firearms) but in my years of shooting I have simply found that other products may better suit a myriad of shooters. The issue is with bolt lock back. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. Copyright © 308AR.com 2023 JavaScript is disabled. JavaScript is disabled. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. I included a pic of the mag fully inserted, then a mag with the follower pushed down to the point of where the bolt catch stays flat. Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. NEVER use this product outside the standard method of operation as it will cause the rifle to no longer be in compliance and you risk arrest. I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. Repeat for the P-mags and note any difference. Seamac, did you have to modify the black polymer on the mag? Fig. Coil bind on the spring? Also don't buy anything from Beavercreek Armory in Hillsboro, Oregon as they screwed me over with this poorly built, out of spec rifle. If that's what the bolt catch is suppossed to look like then my mags are a lil out of spec when inserted into the lower. I read your post twice, I still don't see the malfunction. The ones I used were my friends and I checked the bolt catch before I shot. I dont know what the limit is before you earn the edit privileges. Can anyone offer insight to the cause of or solution to these problems? Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. The edit feature will become available to you with just a few more posts on the forum. New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. Here's a pic of the wear on the bolt catch caused by this: Here's the OEM mag (left) compared to the PMAG (right). "And here remain with your uncertainty! Come join the discussion about optics, modifications, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Very carefully and pay attention to how the bolt catch actually works, if you did you should figured it out almost immediately. If so, it would cause both symptoms. *, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to Replace the empty magazine with a new 10 round magazine and let it click into place. Operation of any AR MAGLOCK products outside the standard method of operation or its original intended use may cause non-compliance to laws / regulations, and injury or death. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another P-Mag bolt catch issue. I dont readily know of a solution to the feed problem but I dont want to alter magazines to compensate for a receiver flaw. Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. I think I may just shoot it a few mags and see what happens.. Press the AR MAGLOCK magazine release button. 1.4k I have a DPMS pattern LR-308 under construction that has a failure to feed and fails to catch the bolt on an empty magazine. https://www.cdnnsports.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=relevance&dir=desc&q=Sig+bolt+catch. Just checked all of mine, I'm not sure how HC's ended up with a witness mark where it's at. I dont have another LR-308 with which to compare my measurements so I dont know which dimensions are problematic. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! Clear editor. Excellent work with the pics and details. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more forward in the mag body, and the end of the catch tab is not lifted upwards to active the catch. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. I deepened the hole to 0.480. Display as a link instead, Mine seem to be fine after trimming of course. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. My Colt LE6920 bolt is not locking back when the last round is fired nor when I insert an empty magpul pmag magazine. Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? The mag doesn't need to come up so far as to cause this condition but the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. It's brand new so it couldn't be anything crazy like the gas block. The P-mags always functioned. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! However, when using the CH to keep the BCG to the rear, the follower can slip past the bolt catch when slammed into the magwell or when jarred or shaken significantly after insertion. You are using an out of date browser. Thanks shooterrex. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch = 0.696, Fig. Loading magazines at home means more shooting time at the range. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever so slightly and drag on the bolt lugs, which results in significant damage over time. How do I make the install permanent for use in states such as. Please refer to our installation videos and the instructions on your packaging. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the bolt catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. Correction to original post: If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). NEVER attempt to cycle the bolt carrier group (manually or otherwise) or fire a round with the action open (receivers separated), as this may cause serious injury or death AND potentially make your rifle non-compliant with laws and regulations! I actually just noticed this issue on my Colt 6920 with Magpul M2 PMAGS. Hexmag for 260rem and pmag for 6.5creed. The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate I started construction with the lower at 80%. Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV. Could i just have faulty mags? All Rights Reserved. Also check out this great, descriptive video as the Gen3 7.62x51 PMag followers have a slightly different contour which can catch the feed lips, and not rise high enough to engage the bolt catch properly on DPMS Gen 2 style bolt catch levers. A new one can be sent upon request. All Rights Reserved. :??? I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. The follower I wouldn't think should have witness marks on it though. They are not as likely to happen with premium ammo yet the chance is still there. IMHO, I would get a USGI / high / known quality bolt catch and try one of those. I am having no problems with Gen 2 or Gen 3 Pmags in a variety of lowers using mil-spec mag and bolt catches, which are also from a variety of suppliers. Take off your upper receiver, throw in that empty mag. That should fix it. Could the magazine be too low? Powered by Invision Community, Problems with failure to feed AND failure to catch bolt. Yours is 0.6640" for a difference of 0.028" which isn't as much as I expected based on drawings which is 0.049". I don't and I didn't . honest. I like the idea that I can accomplish a speedy reload by pressing a button and kicking a magazine out. Also, PMAGs had trouble fitting in firearms like the British SA-80/L-85, and will not fit in the FN FS-2000 without the user modifying the weapon by removing a component that serves to seal the weapon from dirt and debris. Then collapse that spring ON the plunger, to coil bind, and measure the OAL of both (with spring in coil bind). https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/, Bolt catch is from a TacFire .308 AR Lower Parts Kit (not for an AR-15). The max difference is 0.030".The real problem is where the mag catch hole is in the lower. My fix was with Gen2 pmags. JWardJune 15, 2020 in Building a .308AR. Would anyone be willing to measure and report their heights from the top of the lower to the top of a cartridge case head? Hey, everyone. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. My external measurement as shown in figure 11 is the top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole which is 0.692. For a while you only had so long to make the edit and then never again. It is tight getting the depth gauge to the lower so the caliper may need to be slightly rotated but not in a direction that will affect the height measurement. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more . Anyone else having problems with the 15/30. Like CPT stated, it's supposed to raise it some and technically it can only go so far before the BCR bottoms out. Has anyone seen this? Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Well, there are several reasons for this. Your link has been automatically embedded. I realized you can fix this by filing or dremeling off some material on the rear of the mag body, or by using whatever generation of magazine they implemented to fix this, or you could just arrive at my next point and save four or five dollars more by purchasing a GI mag. One new winner* is announced every week! Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Yes I had to trim the left side rear notch square before the BC laid perfectly flat. #5. The tension on the bolt catch by the BCG helps keep the bolt catch firmly engaged over the rear of the follower of the Pmag. No need to answer that last question. I just checked and my BM lower does the same. I too have seen issues with PMag followers. The problem is pretty simple, the magazine's follower is failing to raise the bolt catch. Continue until the upper lip is flush with the upper receiver when closed. First and foremost, I will readily acknowledge that PMAGs are a great magazine. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Pmags have worked fine in the past. Next up is damage to the SCAR. Iiiiffffff I owned one of those evil black rifles , I might buy the Hexmag brand when they went on sale for $6.95 ea. These same parts are available from other vendors. I get asked a lot why, in almost all of my reviews or videos, I use good old-fashioned U.S. GI steel magazines in lieu of Magpul PMAGs, a popular alternative that most shooters these days are familiar with. Once bolt was locked to the rear or closed, it would engage the catch and seat properly on the "bad" mag. Try tightening the mag catch an extra turn. PMAGs are pretty notorious for not wanting to work in various platforms, including guns like the HK-416 and M27-IAR. Mar 3, 2022. I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. Always use the firearm and AR MAGLOCK products as designed, engineered and intended for use. You'll need to clay the upper, just like you'd do if you were checking an engine for piston-to-valve clearance. A forum community dedicated to FN Herstal firearm owners and enthusiasts. Sounds like the pmag is riding a little high and rubbing the bottom of the carrier a bit. The bolt passes over the cartridge instead of stripping it from the magazine. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. So, for people who only have AR-15s and only shoot AR-15s, its easy to get tunnel vision and just assume that PMAGs are the greatest, and the end-all, be-all answer for all shooters, while overlooking the needs of other people. The Fix: 1.) the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever . That said, there is a reason that there are generations of these magazines. i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. I picked up a SCAR 16s last week and put 50 rounds through it with no problems at all (using the FN mag). I recently assembled this Noveske rifle and bought 3. How can I make my rifle more reliable with PMags? View attachment 25288. Note: Firearm will not retain magazines until a replacement magazine catch solution is re-installed. I deepened the hole to 0.480. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. check out the. Some rifles are just finicky. They are reliable, well-constructed, and produced by a company that has a great reputation. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Problem: 30 round Pmag follower doesn't catch on the front lip of the bolt catch. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isnt present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. The witness make could be from the locking lugs on the bolt, mine don't have it so I can't say for sure. I could not find it for a few days so I checked it. Measure the depth of the hole, first. So, I marked it and I'm gonna keep running it through to see if it happens anymore. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. Again, though, I would like to recognize that PMAGs are a quality product and Magpul is very receptive to user feedback. Depending on the rear takedown pin you are using either pull the pin (Tacticool pin) or actuate the pin to disengage the receivers (KingPin & Hyperswitch). Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. Depth of the hole? This will severly damage your bolt group over time. What measurements do you have on your lower? You cannot paste images directly. What's stopping your bolt catch travel, when you have that plunger and spring in there? In total, I (and friends) fired about 1,200 rounds in this review, 1,000 PMC .223 55-grain, about 200 reloads (a mix of 77- and 75-grain), and 20 rounds of Tula steel case at the very end. The bolt catch rides up but not on the black polymer part of the mag, but the follower.