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Thanks. tour of some of our specialised workshop To have the discharge go arc back into the coil itself or the mag housing causes some serious damage. Also, with the points open, check that there is an open circuit between them; if fitted with a Brightspark EasyCap, it will take a little while for the resistance reading to climb off the scale. If there is a difference, adjust the points so that it is the smaller gap that is 0.012 (0.3 mm). Over time the HT leads can degrade and reduce the potential difference at the spark plug. Thanks. There are several common faults with magnetos The Capacitor Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). 0000009971 00000 n i have had 3 done here by ed strain that included rebuild with remagnatized body for a little more than $200.00. Your mag likely has a bad condensor. classic vehicles generally. Don't want this buried as I 'm hoping for some possible answers today. I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in one and then the other of the the plug caps. capacitance to satisfactory ignition system magnetos. Check out our magneto armature winding service. only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle Free access to service and repair With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. have a small choice of reconditioned Check that the spring of the pick-up brush is good, that the brush is free to move in its holder and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Now let the slip ring dry out with the pick-ups still removed. This dissipates the energy that was stored in the condenser in time for the next closure of the points, leaving the condenser discharged and ready to repeat the cycle. On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. In a modern installation, the magneto only has a single low tension winding which is connected to an external ignition coil which not only has a low tension winding, but also a secondary winding of many thousands of turns to deliver the high voltage required for the spark plug(s). books. Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. Espaol A good Wico X series mag will jump at least 3/8" air gap. Svensk grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip Wrap some rag around the end of a stick about 1/4 diameter, moisten it with petrol or other cleaning fluid (but not so much that it is dripping), poke it through the pick-up hole in the magneto body, and rotate the armature to clean the slip ring. Nederlandse 0000002847 00000 n This can mask a fault on these cars as the vehicle will continue to run until the other fails. If the timing is not correct on both lobes, the reason could be that: the contact-breaker assembly is wobbly on the end of the armature; the cam or its housing were incorrectly machined (rare); with ring-cam magnetos, the armature and cam are not coaxial due to the outer race of the bearing at the contact-breaker end not being seated properly by its insulator in the cam housing. Coil may still function somewhat and not completely failed but ratio of turns lost because of insulation breakdown. The irony here is that usually these magnetos fail to spark. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. If possible, get somebody to help. If you have an auto-ranging meter, the reading might jump about a bit on the way while it changes scales. I was hoping that some of the experts might help me with a magneto problem. As the magnet moves with respect to the coil, the magnetic flux linkage of the coil changes. Remove the pick-up(s) from the magneto taking care not to mislay the gasket(s). If you do not obtain readings substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section, and if everything else you previously checked is still good, it indicates that the pick-up brush(es) is/are not making good electrical contact with the brass of the slip ring. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any here. At any one time, we reckon to The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). Upgrade your membership to A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. After 1 hour or so the bike can be started again, but the ignition fails again after riding about 20 miles - not a pleasent way to ride! Lucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuff. The capacitor and the coil together form a resonant circuit which allows the energy to oscillate from the capacitor to the coil and back again. Dual plugs provide both redundancy should a magneto fail, and better engine performance (through enhanced combustion). sequences illustrating the importance of 0000003086 00000 n If not provided with a safety gap, there is a risk of expensive damage. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. This Lucas KVF magneto was rebuilt 7,000 miles ago and failed at around 3,000 miles with loss of spark on one cylinder. In either case, the magneto needs a more complete overhaul. If you are using an auto-advance timing gear, stuff a length of fuel line in the mech to hold it at full . The reading will probably be a fraction of an ohm. or This causes the electromagnetic field in the primary coil to collapse rapidly. With an open circuit the device has no CAPACITY to absorb the reaction voltage (back EMF) from the coil, therefore this energy is dissipated across the timing contact which quickly burns away. [3] The capacitor's function is similar to that of a snubber as found in a flyback converter. Common Faults on Magnetos Fantastic! replacement for the condenser (capacitor) in The readings for the two plug caps should now be swapped around. Repeat with clean pieces of petrol-moistened rag, until the rag comes out clean. 0000005952 00000 n In the right direction (clockwise, looking at the points) and a fairly healthy looking spark should jump the gap from one ht at a time, lead to casing. I got it back, spun it, sparked. If it has any unusual marks, try to work out what caused them and whether anything should/could be done about them. IMPORTANT. I do not think this is your issue because the timing light does not trigger. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. in the translations. Since the beginning of World War I in 1914, magneto-equipped aircraft engines have typically been dual-plugged, whereby each cylinder has two spark plugs, with each plug having a separate magneto system. The family of Bijan Ghaisar, shot dead by two U.S. Park Police officers as he slowly drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee away from them in 2017, agreed to settle their lawsuit against the . Franaise Deutsch We would recommend having the transformer coil rewound as modern class F or H wires and insulations are superior to the ones used at the time it was originally made and would almost certainly give you another 40 years of good service. I would be interested to hear from people who either have seen this running or know of similar setups in forges. Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. I'm thinking the magneto is weak even though it was rebuilt with new condenser.. Do similar tests with the HT lead(s) and the plug-cap(s). The permanent magnet can be static, as in the classical horse-shoe form, with the transformer windings rotating between the poles, or sometimes the magnet is mounted on the armature and rotates within the core of a static winding. Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark Coil Fail. I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. Posts: 34. Downloadable drawings, all for free, for When the magneto is supposed to fire, the flyweights are released by the action of the body contacting the trigger ramp. However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. 0000001913 00000 n Lucas Magneto Bearing Shim Pack 15mm | E15 | N3048 | K1F | SR | K2F . LUCAS Magneto check "How To" - Jockey Journal Forum The air gap allows the voltage to build on the rotor until it is high enough to jump the gap thus it actually magnifies it somewhat. Take a look at some of the equipment we If higher than that, investigate. If you need more information, or wish to order by post or pay over the phone, please ring: 01273 913181. Pick-up brushes of the highest 0000007301 00000 n ring. If you have identified the magneto as the source of your ignition fault send it to us for repair. I was bench testing by tuning the mag slowly by hand, without the impulse coupling attached, so 1/4" is a good distance. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. Check the state of the heel of the moving-point assembly. In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. 0000001569 00000 n demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' Great post! We will check all the parts of the magneto for faults and will provide a firm quotation for a repair along with a description of the magneto repair required. If there is a main-body earth brush and it is accessible, remove it and check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move in the holder and that the brush is not unduly worn in length or diameter. JRC Engineering Inc. 3110 Indian Ave Unit 1E, Perris, CA, 92571. or Check the condition of the HT lead(s) and plug-cap(s) and replace where necessary. Stored in the dry. "A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts." I do not know it all but I will try to help. Some have both types of earth brush. [6], The first car to use magneto ignition was the 1901 German Mercedes 35 hp racing car, followed by various cars produced by Benz, Mors, Turcat-Mery, and Nesseldorf. The contact points which are mounted onto the end of the armature shaft, used to time the breaking of the primary winding current, will become pitted and worn, especially so if the capacitor is faulty. If you are having trouble with your ignition system we recommend that you first change your spark plugs and HT leads. Learn how and when to remove this template message, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ignition_magneto&oldid=1150712364, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from January 2023, Articles needing additional references from January 2023, All articles needing additional references, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 19 April 2023, at 18:38. Click on a button to see magnetos from other manufacturers Bosch BTH Others Click on any picture to get a larger view These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. Brightspark Magnetos is now able to offer a remagnetising service, using our specially-developed remagnetising and measuring equipment to help you restore your magneto to tip-top condition. The voltage generated across magneto coils is quite high, in the order of 20,000 volt if no spark plugs are in place. Therefore, taking the sparking plug(s) out of the engine, laying them on the cylinder head and checking whether the magneto will produce a spark at kickstart speeds is not a sufficient test. [2] An ignition magneto also includes an electrical transformer,[2] which converts the electricity to a higher voltage (with the trade-off being a corresponding reduction in the output current).[2]. 0000013093 00000 n A forum community dedicated to Jockey motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. heavier the better. Undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. [7] Ignition magnetos were soon was used on most cars, for both low voltage systems (which used secondary coils to fire the spark plugs) and high voltage magnetos (which fired the spark plug directly, similar to induction coil ignition). If necessary, dress the points on a fine stone. She was factory fitted with a Morris Vedette MKII engine which has a lucas rf4 magneto. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. PDF LUCAS MAGNETOS - edknet.de A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. To help magneto owners look after their magnetos Then check that the contact-breaker assembly is not wobbly on the end of the shaft. rebuilding magnetos and of how to extract an unfortunately the repair did not work as the Coil did not work so it had to be sent to rewinding. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. However, typical signs of magneto problems are, among others: -- Bike hard to start. Mechanical - Bearings, insulation, washers and shimming the armature. We can adapt for most applications. Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. If it is significantly higher, there is a bad connection or break in the low-tension circuit, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. 1. -- misfiring, particularly at higher revs and fully open throttle, or when opening the throttle. wish to make the required puller tool Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in the plug cap. 0000000783 00000 n This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. I think it may be do to condensor failure. instruments available for immediate use, and a Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. I'm working on a Lucas Mag right now for the first time and this is extremely helpful. that old problem, the deeply-buried condenser Great photos, quality! Electrical - Armature windings, Condenser, Slip ring, Points and Bushes. Check the cam surface. If you can't get even 1/4", I would be worried it would not work under the stress of being in the combustion chamber. Put it on bike, timed, no spark. 5.5 mm (220 thou) THREE-POINT SPARK GAP. Lucas magneto problems? NEW CHEAP solution to bad condensor Thoroughly clean the pick-up using a rag moistened with petrol. Always good to learn how to check lucas parts, one of the weaker parts of a triumph motor.. Classic Cycles inc. 2199 N. Batavia Suite J. When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. trailer Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. The result in high resistance will reduce the current flow in the primary winding and reduce the magnetic flux which adversely effects the secondary winding output voltage.